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Free? Rights?

We need a national point of order on exactly what a “right” is. We have a lot of “slavery is freedom” going on. If you think you have a right to a job, food, and a place to live, slavery does provide all of that.

Rights do not evolve. Making rights ephemeral like that is a great way to lose them.

Today at CPAC, I’m wearing a disguise so I look exactly like Jonah Goldberg. If you see him, it’s probably me. I won’t drop character.

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Categories: Uncategorized
  1. 2012/02/12 at 16:28

    I’m glad you’ll never be elected.

  2. 2012/02/12 at 16:32

    Incidentally, since you tend to run away from discussions, I will use this space to correct something I recently said elsewhere. I claimed you “hissy-fitted your way off Facebook” for the third time. It’s still true that you’ve done it twice – because it’s a good thing to hate progress, I guess – but from what I can tell, it appears you’re still on there. Is this true? If so, am I no longer welcomed to read your hugely insightful rantings and ravings against good things because I was a big meany regarding the false idea that soldiers are somehow heroes and not merely people looking to get money for school or dumb kids with no options or macho assholes who want to kill brown people?

  3. 2012/02/12 at 23:42

    It is, and was, a foul streak of you presuming knowledge you do not have. You are free to have all the opinions you like, and you might in fact even be correct in holding some of them. Don’t know, don’t care. However, I don’t think you exhibiting an apparent hate and basic, fundamental disrespect that appears at least as baseless as the hate that exists for a host of other groups out there is a poor reason to simply decide your filth is no longer worth my time or my interest.

    If you want to call that a hissy fit, than obviously you may do so.

    And no, this would be the first time actually removing an individual as opposed to ditching the whole service for short periods of time due to my unhappiness with something Facebook had done or hadn’t done. You flatter yourself.

    I don’t actually have any particular disagreement with the notion that people join the military for reasons ranging from having no other options to getting money for education and so on. That’s fine. I take issue with your dismissal both of the general amount of intelligence rolling around and the basic idea that people are somehow forced into joining, because there are far easier ways of paying for school than joining the military.

    Not that you would really have any idea at all.

    Considering the low threshold you have previously established for the usage of the word hero, I’m pretty surprised at this debacle.

  4. 2012/02/12 at 23:48

    Also surprised you have some issue with the idea of rights not being free to evolve. I do assume you would take issue if the government had ever said “free speech doesn’t extend to the internet. The internet wasn’t foreseen and so can’t be covered.”

    Or something similar. But there is only one right I am aware of in the bill of rights that is a positive right, to the services of others, the right to legal counsel. Which the state is free to deny you. If they don’t give you a lawyer, they simply have to give up charges against you.

  5. 2012/02/13 at 19:28

    It is, and was, a foul streak of you presuming knowledge you do not have. You are free to have all the opinions you like, and you might in fact even be correct in holding some of them. Don’t know, don’t care.

    Do you read the things you write? You obviously care. You went out of your way to delete my comment and then block me.

    If you want to call that a hissy fit, than obviously you may do so.

    Actually, I called your previous exits from Facebook “hissy-fits”. I only called this recent a event a hissy-fit when I thought you had once again deleted yourself. Now that I know the specifics, I would just say this is ironically immature.

    And no, this would be the first time actually removing an individual as opposed to ditching the whole service for short periods of time due to my unhappiness with something Facebook had done or hadn’t done. You flatter yourself.

    I’m not sure you’ve taken the needed time to understand what has been said. I didn’t say I was the first person you’ve ever removed. Again, I said you hissy-fitted off Facebook twice, to my knowledge. That’s true.

    I don’t actually have any particular disagreement with the notion that people join the military for reasons ranging from having no other options to getting money for education and so on. That’s fine.

    Again, do you read the things you write? This was “filth” but moments ago.

    I take issue with your dismissal both of the general amount of intelligence rolling around and the basic idea that people are somehow forced into joining, because there are far easier ways of paying for school than joining the military.

    I don’t recall saying anything about the intelligence of military members, but since you bring it up, the fact that high school drop-outs are now accepted speaks volumes about what is needed to join. I’m sure the higher ranks have more intelligent people, but I don’t have that confidence when talking about the so-called runts. In fact, given that it is a disproportionate number of minorities who join, I would say it is likely that the education level is notably lower in the military versus the general population (since white kids tend to have better schools available to them).

    I find it astounding that you think people don’t go into the military because they have few options in life. It constitutes a good job that offers a lot of training. People who don’t want to work for $8 an hour or go to college see it as an obvious out. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that, but apparently you do. It’s unclear why you suddenly don’t want to break the military down to economics, given your willingness to do that with everything else in life.

    Considering the low threshold you have previously established for the usage of the word hero, I’m pretty surprised at this debacle.

    Searching FTSOS, I see I have called the efforts of Andre Sougarret heroic. I called Richard Winters a hero, too. I have also indicated that I greatly admire the efforts of those at Ground Zero (something the Republicans apparently did not a year+ ago). Perhaps you can enlighten me on why this threshold is so low.

    I find this all humorous. You’ve gone on and on about not having a right to be offended, about people needing to just deal with disagreement and pipe down, yet when someone hits a sore spot of yours you act like a 13 year old kid. If this were the playground, would you give me the silent treatment? It’s really all fine with me; I was really just curious about what exactly happened. In fact, I actually, in a very narrow way, have a little more respect for you. It isn’t often that you show your human side. The fact that you finally got emotional over something is surprising, and I’m glad you aren’t the total, empty robot your portray yourself to be.

    At any rate, you apparently agree with me in most of the details. How filthy of you.

  6. 2012/02/13 at 20:54

    I never deleted any comments.

    I left facebook several times to cut down on high rates of emails until discovering the setting that needed changing and apparently changes itself on occasion. Not really hissy fit material, but whatever you like.

    I don’t see removing you as a hissy fit. I see it rather as removing an individual I had determined I had no need to have commenting any longer on my casual musings and snark.

    I still see your comment as filth.

    “or dumb kids with no option”

    And high school drop outs are required to get their GED, which is also accepted, typically when recruitment requires it. Also, a college degree is effectively required for promotion after not very long, and certainly the practical equivalent is after E-5. Always required to my knowledge if one desires to be an officer.

    I certainly don’t see it as an out, it’s certainly much harder and more dangerous even outside of wartime than most other professions offering college assistance.

    Do some more digging in your archives and you may want to look at other terms typically synonymous with the word heroic.

    In as far as my emotions, or lack there of, there are simply some things I am not desirous of hearing nonsense from people on, particularity when they seem not to have more than the faintest idea what they are talking about. While yes, no one has a right not to be offended, we do all have freedom of association.

    And I don’t disagree on some details, I disagree on the insinuations you seemed to make. Regardless, when it’s my play ground, I get to determine the players. You will of course have noticed you are able to comment here as much as you wish. This being a more acceptable place for such things than my profile, in my, the only one who matters, opinion.

    Lastly, it is all economics, where did I ever give the impression that it wasn’t? No one would join the military if they didn’t place value on that way of life, the challenges, experiences etc, etc, regardless of how much was being paid. As is happens, the pay is crappy for the express reason that they can pay what they do and get enough people to fill the holes that need filling. It is pure economics, it just so happens that other things, perhaps the brotherhood and excellence that are a mainstay, are valued pretty highly by the ones choosing to join. It’s not exactly easy to get in on many occasions.

  7. 2012/02/13 at 20:55

    And To the first thing you said here, I don’t typically run from any discussions, I may get tired of having them, but that isn’t really the same thing at all.

  8. 2012/02/13 at 23:34

    I’m just going to respond to you paragraph by paragraph rather than quote.

    Then you blocked me in piece-meal because I could still see some things on your wall at a time. If anything, this shows that you cared enough to go to some length to block me from seeing certain things, thought it about it more, and blocked/defriended me all together. I would be interested to know if you’re invisible to everyone who isn’t your friend or if you had to specifically block me.

    Sounds like a hissy-fit to me. Twice.

    Again, do you read things closely at all? I didn’t say it was a hissy-fit to block me. I said it was ironically immature.

    I’m glad you still see my comment as filth. It tickles me to know that you therefore also see your own opinions as filth, given that you’ve largely agreed with me so far.

    Again, I don’t remember the specifics of what I said, but if you say I wrote that, then sure. People who don’t have good options are frequently dumb. That they are able to get their GED doesn’t prove much. If anything it tells me there’s a good chance they were too dumb, at some point, to follow through with high school. But maybe they had some legitimate reason. I doubt that’s the case for most. As for college degrees, it’s odd how much of a fan you’ve become of moving the goal posts. “Dumb kids with no options” have nothing to do with the small percentage who move on to positions which require a real education.

    I’m sure you don’t see it as an out, but you have also grown up with everything provided for you in a safe environment. Have you ever had the concern that you would be working for $8 an hour into your 30’s? Your 40’s? I can’t say I have.

    I’m not going to scour my website for the probably two or three specific references you have in mind. Simply tell me.

    It’s still highly ironic that being offended by a difference of opinion caused you to care so much about what else I might say that you defriended and/or blocked me. Your actions don’t fit your words terribly well. (If you’re wondering, I’ve only ever defriended one person on the basis of what they were writing, and that was because he was spamming. It wouldn’t interest me to create a space where only people who agree with me are allowed to speak.)

    I don’t think I made mere insinuations. I outright said what I thought. I’m just not so deluded as to think the military is some bastion of heroes. It isn’t. You’re free to buy into the blatant propaganda, though.

    You gave the overwhelming impression that it wasn’t about economics when you posted a picture lauding the inherent heroism of those who join the military, as if they do it for virtuous reasons – as opposed to the reasons I listed. Ya know. The reasons with which you largely agree. You filthy, filthy man.

    No one would join the military if they didn’t place value on that way of life, the challenges, experiences etc, etc, regardless of how much was being paid.

    So it is your position that everyone in the military would still be there even if the government didn’t offer help with college? Or if they slashed the median pay for enlisted members from $33K to $16.5K? It’s clearly not about economics on this for you.

  9. 2012/02/13 at 23:35

    By the by, it’s not a bad thing to have a heart.

  10. 2012/02/14 at 04:54

    Good God. This is one of those times where I’m getting tired of a discussion. I’ll read it later.

  11. 2012/02/14 at 09:48

    “And most of that 1% is composed of people who hold nationalistic views of ignorance, want money for college, or don’t have any real plans or aspirations in life. The military isn’t some bastion of heroes. It’s a place for people who want to shoot brown people, gain relative financial prosperity, and/or don’t have any other choice.

    But maybe 1% of that 1% has virtuous reasons for fightin’ for ‘merica.”

    That is specifically what you said. That may be what you think, certainly its fine for you to think such things, but I don’t care to have it on my facebook, which is my choice, and thats the beginning middle and end of it. Especially given that at least 2/3rds of that jibber jabber is pure nonsense backed by not even the slightest shred of evidence and is more telling about your feeling towards other who, for whatever reason they do so, requires large sacrifices on behalf of this country, regardless of the rights or wrongs of the sacrifices made.

    The military is not usually polled for their opinions on how things will go, and everyone knows this when they join, and these days no one has “no other choice”.

    You are welcome to whatever opinions you like, I am welcome to censor a part of the internet meant allegedly to depict my thoughts and ideas, not to hold sacred a discussion panel of nearby or relevant opinions. I obviously didn’t go point by point or likely touch on everything. I’m done with this issue, certainly feel free to continue, obviously your interest has been piqued is some manner, I’m just not interested in continuing on, at least not in such a broad manner. I’m sure we could spend weeks going back and forth and I’m not going to.

  12. 2012/02/14 at 12:27

    Running away again? Weird. I have this other bald friend you may be interested in palling around with. The two of you will never have to entertain a contrary idea to your ideology ever again. I think you’ve met.

    At any rate, I’m not arguing that you don’t have the right to censor this or that. It’s a plainly dishonest strawman you’re creating. My position is that you’re immature and inconsistent. If you really didn’t want me to knock down your delusion of the grandeur of the military, you could have asked. I probably would have said okay and then made fun of your mother. That you went with the junior high method is fine by me, though. I’m only judging you by an adult standard, not forcing you to adhere to one.

  13. 2012/02/14 at 12:30

    By the by, if you really didn’t care to have that on your Facebook, you would have deleted it. You may want to brush up on the importance of being consistent.

  14. 2012/02/15 at 01:00

    I had been planning on this for awhile, but your emotional delusion spurred it happening sooner: http://forthesakeofscience.com/2012/02/14/support-the-troops/

  15. 2012/02/15 at 06:12

    What exactly would you know of ‘adult standards’? You just illustrated with the raw milk that you aren’t interested in holding people to adult standards of conduct and responsibility.

    And think what you like, but deciding you have had enough of a discussion is not running away, it’s deciding how to spend your time efficiently. You are welcome to carry on, just don’t delude yourself that one who has had enough of it is running away.

    I’ll certainly have a look at some point, at what I’m sure is an exercise in whining about behavior not affecting you in any way.

  16. 2012/02/15 at 12:56

    You’re just a kook when it comes to anything the government does. Raw milk could contain radioactive material that has been shown to cause cancer in 98% of the people who drink it and you would be fine with it so long as there was a label. And you’d probably prefer a private market-induced label at that.

    It’s certainly running away. You’re willing to dish out a big pile of argumentation, but you’re unwilling to address that which contradicts your ideology and beliefs when it does so more than superficially. “What, ‘Leave me alone!’ isn’t a valid argument here? Bah. I have free government health care to use and government checks to cash.”

    I’m still waiting for you to point out who it is I have called a hero incorrectly.

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