Home > Uncategorized > Jesus Christ, A Birthday…

Jesus Christ, A Birthday…

I went, as I usually do on Sundays anyway, to Christmas Mass at the catholic church down the street from me. I also went on Saturday on account of the whole Christmas Eve thing. Now most atheists won’t take the route of shitting on Christmas simply because it’s pretty certain that Jesus was not born on the 25th of December. There are a lot of reasons for this, but namely because it just doesn’t make any difference.

I just really find it annoying when I hear this argument, because there are so many better, well reasoned arguments for atheists to choose from. Somehow Jesus likely being born in the spring, is presented as a big “gotcha”.

Guess what, George Washington and Abe Lincoln weren’t born on presidents day. Is that any kind of decent argument for them not existing? No, of course not.

I don’t mind people questioning whether or not there is a God, usually, if you aren’t talking to an idiot (I’m assuming it goes both ways) it can be pretty interesting to discuss. When the Jesus wasn’t born on Christmas thing comes in to it, I give up, because I’m obviously speaking to a moron of the highest degree.

Happy New Year, mazel tov.

Categories: Uncategorized
  1. 2011/12/29 at 20:28

    Since birthdays are fairly arbitrary things to celebrate anyway (wow, the Earth has gone around the Sun once more, yay), we might as well celebrate Jesus’ birth on December 25th. It’s as good a day as any for it.

  2. 2011/12/30 at 16:41

    The Priest who did the Mass this year has something like 14 grandchildren, all of whom were there, and he promised them he would sing happy birthday to Jesus. It was pretty funny, I’m not sure if that’s part of the official liturgy.

  3. 2011/12/31 at 02:53

    I think the general point is to note yet another inaccuracy among Christians. That and perhaps also the fact that Christmas is largely a stolen holiday and so that is why it is in December.

    Of course, if anyone is using the inaccuracy of Christmas as a knock against Jesus’ existence, then they need a lesson in logic.

  4. 2011/12/31 at 12:27

    Well perhaps among Christians, but I’m not aware of any christian church, even going back 1500 years, that for any length of time counted the day as the true day of his birth.

    When you get to the matter of whether it’s stolen or not, well you are stepping off into lala land here a bit. Certainly there are customs that we include which are not strictly speaking products of christian belief. What you and others completely overlook is the fact Christmas was far more regional in centuries past than it is today.

    The Christmas tree, for example, is a fairly modern thing, going back as we know it only about 500 years. On the other hand our Norse friends who supposedly dragged trees inside for the solstice, really didn’t. A branch really, that and the roughly 1000 year separation in the two customs tells us they are at best loosely related.

    That’s just one thing, jump to Christian North Africa and do you expect you will see the same customs as you do in Northern Europe? No. You wouldn’t have and still won’t. The fact is, Christmas was, and to an extent is, a very regional holiday. Local people add whatever they please into it. The fact that they chose December 25th is just a case of picking a day where we already had a number of celebrations, pagan or otherwise, convenience was not invented with the microwave.

    What uniformity we see today is largely a product of enlightenment expansionism.

  5. 2011/12/31 at 23:00

    Christmas isn’t always in December either Michael. Depends on what church we are talking about. Does the Eastern Orthodox Church celebrate Christmas in January because of Roman and pagan celebrations thousands of miles away a few weeks earlier?

    I hardly think so. If you have discovered some way of gleaning peoples motives 1600 years after the fact, there are a large number of applications for that process.

  6. 2011/12/31 at 23:52

    For someone who professes to like history, you sound an awful lot like a Gingrich or David Barton.

    Christmas is derived, whether locally or not, from a number of pagan traditions. Christians can hardly be credited with much originality in the matter. That is as far as the discussion need go. The rest of what you said is blather that adds nothing, isn’t important, and fails to contradict anything I’ve said anyway.

  7. 2012/01/01 at 02:33

    I’m not sure where you are getting that information. There are certain customs that come from the pagans. But altogether it doesn’t add up to a stolen or mostly recycled holiday, especially back when the first christian holiday came into being. Most of the traditions we associate with the pagan holidays moved back in centuries afterwards.

    So, recycled? Eh, a little in the beginning, a little more later on, but no where near as much as you would like. Not that it really even matters.

  8. 2012/01/01 at 03:27

    Very Barton-esque, indeed.

  9. 2012/01/01 at 13:15

    Come back when you have more than the regurgitation of the half truths of others.

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